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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Hi I'm mvBarracuda from the ianout project.
We were able to get some new coders in the last 2 weeks and ATM we're porting the engine to linux. After the linux port has been finished we'll release Beta 5 for windows.
Although no timeframe is set for the release of Beta 5, we're even planning the work on Beta 6 now. As we got a new team of experienced coders we would like to have an open discussion about the future file format and script syntax of IanOut. With a good planning phase we hope that the changes in the engine architecture in the future will be minor.
Is teamx interested in joining this discussion? We know that teamx is the community with the far most knowledge about Fallout engine internals and we would be grateful if some of your members could give us some advices about the future way the engine should go.
Greetings,
mvBarraucda | http://www.ianout.de
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Отправлено: 0:08 - 20 Июля, 2005 | ИСПРАВЛЕНО: mvBarracuda - 0:09 - 20 July, 2005
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Wasteland Ghost
Маленькое Злое Привидение
Откуда: Россия, Самара
Регистрация: Дек. 2002
Всего: 2251 сообщение
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Hmmm.... What about me, I don't know if I interested with this phoject. I understand you and I respect you for your intentions, but we mostly just Fallout2 modders, not game designers or something. But if you're looking for information on formats and so on, we'll tell you everything we know about this. But if you mean testing of your engine, I'm afraid we can't help you. But... may be the others from the team have a different look at that all  .
PS My english is very *broken*, I know  .
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Отправлено: 9:56 - 20 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Wasteland Ghost on 9:56 - 20 July, 2005
Hmmm.... What about me, I don't know if I interested with this phoject. I understand you and I respect you for your intentions, but we mostly just Fallout2 modders, not game designers or something. But if you're looking for information on formats and so on, we'll tell you everything we know about this. But if you mean testing of your engine, I'm afraid we can't help you. But... may be the others from the team have a different look at that all .
PS My english is very *broken*, I know .
No problem as my english isn't good either.
My intention was not to encourage TeamX to beta test IanOut! We got a new developement team and try to get the next beta out soon. But after that beta there should be a discussion phase how the new file formats and the scripting code should look like.
As TeamX got the most experience I thought they were interested in influencing the next generation fallout engine (because nothing less is our goal to achive). ATM we use luascript for the scripting but one of your community members (mangler) suggested to create support for the original fallout scripts. We got excellent coders to realize such ideas but before we'll create anything there needs to be a discussion if the feature is useful. I thought it would be good to get some experienced modders into discussion and they could let us know what features they want to see in ianout.
The TeamX community invested a lot of time to decrypt the secrets of the Fallout files because they were not open and if you look into the docs you can still see "unknown" fields in the files because nobody (besides the authors of the original engine) knows what these bytes do. So I thought you were interested in a transparent advanced fallout engine and I thought it would be good to have the influence & knowledge of experienced modders.
But maybe I was wrong
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Отправлено: 15:57 - 20 Июля, 2005 | ИСПРАВЛЕНО: mvBarracuda - 19:42 - 20 July, 2005
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Anchorite
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Регистрация: Янв. 2003
Всего: 283 сообщения
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I think many of "unknown" fields now is "known"
If You need help with translation of documents I may help with it. But I warn - my english is not good enough.
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Отправлено: 8:04 - 21 Июля, 2005
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Wasteland Ghost
Маленькое Злое Привидение
Откуда: Россия, Самара
Регистрация: Дек. 2002
Всего: 2251 сообщение
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May be you should start from the "Data Base" translation .
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Отправлено: 13:15 - 21 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Anchorite on 8:04 - 21 July, 2005
I think many of "unknown" fields now is "known"
If You need help with translation of documents I may help with it. But I warn - my english is not good enough.
No problem Anchorite, you're always welcome
All of us (besides the team members from the states) aren't native speakers so we got members from Hungary, Austria, Germany, Sweden and the US. And as long as we understand each other there should be no problem; considering my English sucks after I left school because we got no English courses @ university.
We wouldn't need any translation help, but your experience and visions. You surely thought about what to change in the Fallout sourcecode if it would be open source while digging through all the cryptic files. We try to make a better fallout engine and your experience will be a great support when it comes to defining new file formats or the future script syntax
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Отправлено: 18:07 - 21 Июля, 2005 | ИСПРАВЛЕНО: mvBarracuda - 18:09 - 21 July, 2005
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Aman
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Откуда: Киев
Регистрация: Апр. 2005
Всего: 208 сообщений
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to mvBarracuda
Cryptic files ? The most cryptic file is fallout2.exe .
Today we have good help about the original fallout script language and two good designer programs (thanks Jargo and Tehnokrat) and new compiler-decompiler (thanks Anchorite) which allows with small skills make much. So in your engine we (at least I) would like see original script syntax.
And now work "data base" project which purpose destroy a word "unknown" in the fallout2 formats (and as has told Anchorite many fields now is "known" ). So, knowledge of the original format sooner or later will be full (nowday it is already great and we have many good utilities for change and creation) and in the future the original formats in your engine it would be cool. But it is my pretty IMHO.
P.S. MY english the most bad .
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 7:50 - 23 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Let me specify my ideas a bit more.
If you would have the sourcecode of Fallout available for download and YOU would like to created a cool Fallout game, what features you would like to put in, that the original Fallout didn't have?
As we have the sourcecode of IanOut, as it's open source, we would like to know what features we should include. We want to hear from the community what is important and will make a Fallout game better and which features are nonsense. So feel free to dream of YOUR Fallout game and let's know what features it has.
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Отправлено: 16:54 - 23 Июля, 2005
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Aman
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Откуда: Киев
Регистрация: Апр. 2005
Всего: 208 сообщений
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Heh, our dream the original source fallout2.exe . So, if your engine will come nearer as much as possible to the original engine we shall be happy. Modders have different tasks with engine, therefore it is necessary simply good open source (with good comments).
I didn't see any version of your engine but I heard that he takes many resources. It is the truth ? If it so, would be desirable smaller consumption of resources.
In general me now does not suffice absence of an opportunity stops on worldmap. Such working line in worldmap.txt: If(days_played > Global(XXX)). In original engine work only If(days_played ==, !=, <, > Number). Or any possible other way stops on worldmap, for example this line (working line, which engine understands) in worldmap.txt: If(stop(<number global var> ) ==, !=, <, > Number).
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 21:05 - 23 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 21:05 - 23 July, 2005
Heh, our dream the original source fallout2.exe . So, if your engine will come nearer as much as possible to the original engine we shall be happy. Modders have different tasks with engine, therefore it is necessary simply good open source (with good comments).
This is our opinion too Open source gives the modders always the possibility to change things on their own if they're not satisfied with the product. But as we're trying to produce a "better" Fallout engine, our goal is to have the best things already "on board" so that you don't have to code it yourself.
Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 21:05 - 23 July, 2005
I didn't see any version of your engine but I heard that he takes many resources. It is the truth ? If it so, would be desirable smaller consumption of resources.
It depends on what platform you play. The windows version is not perfect but it's quite fast on my PC. The linux version is still alpha and therefore has surely a quite bad performance. But we're working on it
We got a new dev from the game industry that wrote some of the most important 2d engines and he'll help us to improve the performance, so we got kind of a expert for this issue
Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 21:05 - 23 July, 2005
In general me now does not suffice absence of an opportunity stops on worldmap. Such working line in worldmap.txt: If(days_played > Global(XXX)). In original engine work only If(days_played ==, !=, <, > Number). Or any possible other way stops on worldmap, for example this line (working line, which engine understands) in worldmap.txt: If(stop(<number global var> ) ==, !=, <, > Number).
And we're surely aiming for better scripting, I'll redirect your suggestions to our devs
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Отправлено: 22:00 - 23 Июля, 2005
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Aman
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Откуда: Киев
Регистрация: Апр. 2005
Всего: 208 сообщений
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>>It depends on what platform you play
[Sobs] Windows. What problems in windows version ? Why it is "not perfect" ?
About stops on the worldmap. I here have thought: when we go on the worldmap any sripts don't working, it would be desirable to have one script which work (world.int ), with rules for stops (and not only).
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 1:53 - 24 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 1:53 - 24 July, 2005
>>It depends on what platform you play
[Sobs] Windows. What problems in windows version ? Why it is "not perfect" ?
The rendering engine of ianout (at least the current one) is kind of a mess. But like I said: we're working on it and we've got an engine professional on the team now so we should make a major step forward in therms of frames per second.
Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 1:53 - 24 July, 2005
About stops on the worldmap. I here have thought: when we go on the worldmap any sripts don't working, it would be desirable to have one script which work (world.int ), with rules for stops (and not only).
All scripts will work on the worldmap in Ianout.
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Отправлено: 2:21 - 24 Июля, 2005
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Aman
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Откуда: Киев
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Всего: 208 сообщений
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There was an idea replacing during game passableness of district (*.msk) and images the worldmap (today this is static lines "art_idx" in worldmap.txt). We blow up a dam and... (c) . But it is not critical.
(Добавление от 2:41 - 24 Июля, 2005.)
It becomes tempting. Please write here news about release of new versions Ianout.
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 2:24 - 24 Июля, 2005
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Aman
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Откуда: Киев
Регистрация: Апр. 2005
Всего: 208 сообщений
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And one more wish: when we start any place, not in Arroyo, the "fog of war" above Arroyo remains is open. It would be necessary to make that fog is opens above place of start of the player. Original game have a non-working file game.txt (starting place), there may be your engine will make it working.
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 10:35 - 24 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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As we're making a complete new engine all the restrictions from Fallout will be gone. So feel free to suggest other things that were "badly" solved by the Fallout engine.
With our new worldmap engine, you have the full freedom, so there is are no hardcoded things like the Arroyo start or the missing pipboy (at the beginning) in Fallout 2.
There is no release date set as we started from scratch after Beta 4. IMO it will take some months but we'll have a first version of the basic framework @ the beginning of August. We'll upload it to our sourceforge CVS, so feel free to check it out.
And we set up a wiki system for the most questions:
http://www.ianout.de/ianwiki
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Отправлено: 18:17 - 24 Июля, 2005
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Anchorite
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Откуда: Не здесь
Регистрация: Янв. 2003
Всего: 283 сообщения
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It will be good to get rid from "hardcoded" features - destinations points for elevators, perks.
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Отправлено: 8:47 - 25 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Anchorite on 8:47 - 25 July, 2005
It will be good to get rid from "hardcoded" features - destinations points for elevators, perks.
I've created a short .pdf draft for the meeting tomorrow. Category 9 are the community suggestions we'll discuss. You can download a first version of the draft here:
http://www.ianout.de/pnData/members/meeting_draft_03.pdf
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Отправлено: 15:35 - 25 Июля, 2005
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Alchemist
Модератор
Откуда: Арзамас-17
Регистрация: Дек. 2004
Всего: 298 сообщений
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Цитата:
You can download a first version of the draft here:
Fehler 404.
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/// What'ya be sain'? Vault 100+? We need nothing o'that!
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Отправлено: 18:31 - 25 Июля, 2005
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Aman
Пользователь
Откуда: Киев
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Всего: 208 сообщений
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to mvBarracuda
It would be desirable that new features (food, repair items, inventory limited to size, weather effects etc) might be switched off by flags or any things. New features it's certainly cool, but "clean" variant is necessary.
Not bad would be add formation of the list of commands in the "combat_p_proc procedure" (as reg_anim_begin..). For example: on the first round by our rules there is a formation and begins its performance (walk on the tile, shoot, drop, ending step etc). It would be possible to diversify combat.
I'm downloaded this file - IanOut-0.8.5.1-Beta-4-English-Bin.exe. This is last windows version with SDL ? It is the working version ?
And I'm again have thought: you have told "All scripts will work on the worldmap in Ianout". All ?!? In original, scripts are loaded when they are necessary. You hold them all in memory ? ~1000 critter_p_proc work all time (if you will use original script syntax) ?
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Ибо логично предположить, что если недостаточно чего-либо для запуска чего-либо, то второе чего-либо, а именно то, для которого не хватает - вообще не должно запускаться. (неизвестный)
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Отправлено: 21:37 - 26 Июля, 2005
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mvBarracuda
Member
Откуда: Dresden / Germany
Регистрация: Апр. 2004
Всего: 21 сообщение
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Цитата:
Quote: from Aman on 21:37 - 26 July, 2005
to mvBarracuda
It would be desirable that new features (food, repair items, inventory limited to size, weather effects etc) might be switched off by flags or any things. New features it's certainly cool, but "clean" variant is necessary.
Not bad would be add formation of the list of commands in the "combat_p_proc procedure" (as reg_anim_begin..). For example: on the first round by our rules there is a formation and begins its performance (walk on the tile, shoot, drop, ending step etc). It would be possible to diversify combat.
I'm downloaded this file - IanOut-0.8.5.1-Beta-4-English-Bin.exe. This is last windows version with SDL ? It is the working version ?
And I'm again have thought: you have told "All scripts will work on the worldmap in Ianout". All ?!? In original, scripts are loaded when they are necessary. You hold them all in memory ? ~1000 critter_p_proc work all time (if you will use original script syntax) ?
The system of "checking" features is already planned; so you could always play with the original Fallout ruleset or you switch advanced features on.
Beta 4 works but it's heavy outdated. But feel free to test it, you'll need the Fallout 2 CD for the installation.
As the meeting is over, I've updated our wiki with the results:
http://www.ianout.de/ianwiki/index.php?title=July_27_2005
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Отправлено: 23:10 - 27 Июля, 2005
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